Examining the Evidence

FINAL – Part II: Evidence Continues to Emerge #MH17 Is a False Flag Operation

Key Information in Reverse Chronological Order


#15 – Dissecting the Fake Intercept Disseminated by SBU (Ukrainian Security Service)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g

Note: Half of the Post Translated; The Remaining Half is Speculative
Complete Original of the Post (in Russian) Can Be Found at Eugene-DF LiveJournal

In the disseminated intercept, the place from which the missile was allegedly launched is clearly indicated: the checkpoint at the settlement of Chernukhino.

Pay close attention at the Alleged Map of the MH17 Catastrophe.

As you can see, the distance from the point of launch to the point of the fall is 37 kilometres. At the same time, the elevation of the plane was 10-11 kilometres. For the Russian BUK M2 this distance is, in fact, achievable (although with a very important caveat discussed below).

However, Ukraine does not, and cannot, have modern digital high-tech Anti-Aircraft systems in its arsenal. What it does have, at best, is the older version BUK M1. The system itself is not too bad, and could even fit the stated distance. Except for the caveat that was mentioned.

The thing is that most short to medium range Anti-Aircraft systems work extremely poorly in a “pursuit” mode. There are a number of reasons for this, and I do not intend to belabor the point, but you can take it as an axiom that when the launch is made in “pursuit” of the target, the maximum distance of the launch that successfully hits the target is at least half of the advertised maximum distance (in reality, it even worse, but let’s leave aside the sad part). Accordingly, the real distance of a “pursuit” launch for BUK M1 is 16 kilometres. What’s more, the last 3 kilometres are purely “God willing” and “without guarantees.”

And, so, we have the background. Let’s see how the picture unfolds:

The launch is alleged to have been made from Chernukhino. The maximum distance of the launch is 16 kilometres. The aircraft fell between Snezhnoye and Torez. That’s 37 kilometres, which is 20 kilometres more than the maximum possible point at which the plain could have been hit. You know, even a plane with turned-off engines can’t glide like that. But the trouble is that the aircraft was not whole.

According to the pattern of the spread of fuselage fragments and bodies, the plane was ruptured practically with the first shot. Here it must be mentioned that the high-explosive/fragmentation warhead of the rocket has a mass of approximately 50 kilograms (by the way, Ukrainians have an outdated modification, which is only 40 kilograms).

Overall, that’s not too little; however, it must be understood that it detonates not when it sticks into an airplane, but when it is still at a certain, and fairly significant distance. Moreover, the main strike factor is not the blast wave, but far more significantly – the stream of fragments. These fragments are previously prepared rods (and in the earlier versions – little cubes, if I recall correctly). And yes, for a jet fighter, that, in itself, is more than sufficient.

However, here we are dealing with a huge airliner. Yes, one rocket will rip the casing, cause depressurization, and will kill a lot of passengers. But it will not break up the airliner into pieces. Given certain conditions, the pilots may even be able to land it. And, in fact, there have been precedents (to be provided in future posts). For example – the very same An-28, which is alleged to have been the first victim of a BUK system; even though it was done for, but the crew was able to successfully catapult out. Which, in some way, symbolizes. An An-28, by the way, is far smaller than a Boeing.

Nevertheless, this has relation to the next part of our analysis. For now, let’s accept as a fact the break-up of the aircraft in the air, at a significant height (which is, in essence, what was observed. Allow me to remind you: “fragments spread over a radius of 15 kilometres.” The key here is that this means the following: the aircraft (or, more precisely, the core of the aircraft) fell literally at the point where the rocket impacted it. Clarifying: as soon as the aircraft turned into a host of fragments of different mass, the separation of these fragments began due to air resistance and the difference in inertia. The densest fragment flew a further 3-6 kilometres, falling more and more steeply. The lightest – spread out and, due to gliding and air currents, fell somewhere within a 10 kilometre radius. The medium ones (primarily pieces of casing with high sail-effect and the victims’ bodies) – fell almost vertically.

In other words, the rocket caught up to the plane no closer than 25 kilometres away from Chernukhino. Which is absolutely impossible for a BUK system.

By the way, we can’t overlook the fact that, at maximum distances, BUK can be used only provided there is support from an external radar installation for location and guiding purposes. In other words, even if a rockets flies far, BUK’s mobile radar does not cover its entire distance.

Accordingly, if SBU’s video above is not fake, then, to our surprise, we discover that it was literally impossible for the aircraft to be shot down by the rebel’s BUK. By the way, what exactly this BUK was doing in Chernukhino with the Cossacks is pretty much inexplicable. It is 60 kilometres whether you go to Donetsk or to Lugansk from there, and this BUK would be unable to protect the skies over either of the key cities. Nor are there any hostilities in the area. It’s also strange for the Militia to expect enemy planes there – it’s not like the pilots are their own enemies to make such detours over the enemy’s territory, is it? Well, all right. As I already stated, let’s accept, for the moment, that the intercept is not fake.

And that is what is so strange here: SBU literally offers evidence that proves that that the Militia had no part in the shooting down of the Boeing! The fact that they blame themselves in the recording is quite understandable. Unlike the fascists, they have a conscience, which takes its toll until you are sure it was not you who did it.

Ok. But somebody did, in fact, shoot down the plane?

Of course it was shot down. And here we have another question: what if this recording is a falsification through and through? Then it had to have been prepared somehow? And then disseminated?

That’s when smoke starts to clear, and mirrors – to break.

That’s the problem with tricks.


#14 – An Industry Outlet Confirms Carlos (@spainbuca) as ATC at Borispol Airport in Kiev

Original: EturboNews (ETN Global Travel Industry News) – July 17, 2014

ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.

Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.

Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.

According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.

The First Deputy Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk, Andrew Purgin, stated that the flight recorders of the crashed aircraft will be transferred to Moscow for examination.

Sources say the Rebel group leadership hopes this would confirm the Ukrainian military actually shot down this aircraft. This was reported by the news agency Interfax-Ukraine.

ETN statement: The information in this article is independently confirmed and based on the statement of one airline controller and other tweets received.


#13 – A Brief Well-Made Presentation Regarding Ukraine’s Manufactured Evidence

Video: Paul J. Watson – “Evidence to Frame Russia For MH17 Shoot Down Fabricated?”


#12 – Analysis from an Aerodynamics/Physics Standpoint – Ukrainian Army Responsible


RESUME OF ANALYSIS: What all this means is that if a BUK rocket was launched from the territory controlled by the Militia, the Boeing would have fallen much further to the south-east – i.e. will into the Russian territory. Otherwise, there would have been not time to detect the aircraft, perform electronic capture and launch the rocket. If this was a BUK, and not a jet fighter, then it is most likely that the launch was made from the territory controlled by the Ukrainian army, and the rocket was sent “chasing after” the airplane.


Original: 4yma3iy LiveJournal

I am not an aerodynamics specialist. I am a radioelectronics expert. Nevertheless, I specialize in aviation. If there are aerodynamics specialists here, please critique away.

Initial Data: the plane’s elevation is 10,000 metres, speed is 900 km/h (or 250 m/s).

Judging from the photos from the site of the crash, where all the pieces lie together in one place, it appears that the plane fell as a whole (i.e. some fragments may have broken off, but the fuselage remained intact). So, the aircraft well “as one piece” – i.e. it did not break apart in the air.

Accordingly, it must be considered as one body, the speed of which has a very large dependence on air resistance, particularly given the design features and its intended use.

The time of a body’s free fall:

T = sqrt(2h/g)

Thus, from a height of 10,000 metres, a body will fall:

T = sqrt(2*10000/9.8) = 45 second – HOWEVER! – this applies only in vacuum.

At the same time, the downward velocity when falling from this height is:

V = sqrt(2gh)

This speed will equal 442 m/s – HOWEVER! – this, once again, applies only in vacuum.

In real-life conditions a fall happens with a certain maximum speed, at which the force of air resistance becomes equal to the force of gravity. For a person’s body, for instance, this speed is equal to 40 m/s. For a bullet, this speed is approximately 50 m/s (depending on form and mass). Given the plane’s mass and its enormous size, let’s take this speed to be 40 m/s.

Accordingly, the plane would have been falling approximately 250 second – let’s round it off to 4 minutes, which is quite close to what happened.

Let’s accept that the reduction of horizontal speed also occurs pursuant to a linear equation with certain acceleration.

The vector of the force of front air resistance is directed against the speed of movement, and its magnitude is proportional to characteristic area S, density of the environment ρ, and speed V squared:

V=C((P*V^2)/2)*S

For the aerodynamically well-designed body of an aircraft, Cx < 0.3

Let’s calculate the force of air resistance at the speed of 250 m/s

0.3*1.26*250*250/2*50=590кН

PLANE

The mass of Boeing 777 = 300 ton (in equipped state)

It means that horizontal deceleration due to air resistance would be 590/300 = 2 m/s^2 – just as I suspected (however, this is at the maximum speed).

Now, let’s take our favourite highschool equation:

X=(V1^2-V0^2)/2a

Given the nonlinear nature of deceleration, divide it in half – and we get 31 kilometres.

Let’s consider the strike distance of the rocket. Maximum strike distance of AGM-86 ALSM rocket:

  1. At the height of 30 m – 20 km
  2. At the height of 6,000 m – 26 km
  3. The chance of a successful strike: 0.6 – 0.8

This distance should not be mistaken for the distance of detection.

Map: Yellow Pin to the West = Estimated Rocket Launch Location; Yellow Pin To the East = Crash Site

MH17

What all this means is that if a BUK rocket was launched from the territory controlled by the Militia, the Boeing would have fallen much further to the south-east – i.e. will into the Russian territory. Otherwise, there would have been not time to detect the aircraft, perform electronic capture and launch the rocket.

If this was a BUK, and not a jet fighter, then it is most likely that the launch was made from the territory controlled by the Ukrainian army, and the rocket was sent “chasing after” the airplane.


#11 – Changing MH17 Route From July 14, 2014 to July 17, 2014

IngoGraph

Screenshots of Flight Paths of MH17 for July 14-17, 2014

14th July Route15th July Route  16th July Route17th July Route


#10 – Eyewitness Recounts a Fighter Jet and 3 Explosions When MH17 Was Shot Down

Audio Recording Link: Cassad Net

Transcript of the Eyewitness Phone CallI

have a single sheet of paper that fell from the plane, with fresh blood – you can see it. Baggage also fell, further, in the area of the Petropavlovka settlement – there are fragments there. There is a group in VKontakte that already posted photos with pieces from the Boeing. Also, beyond Rassypnoye, near Terrikon, there are corpses. There were people there, and they saw it all.

I saw, personally, that there were 3 explosions. The first, the second and the third. So, after the first explosions I went up on the roof and saw that a plane was falling – it was already almost at the ground. There was an explosion, a black cloud, and two parachutists were descending – one was descending on his parachute on the wing. The second was flying down very fast – like a stone. And that is what I saw.

However, at that very same moment, a jet fighter was departing in the direction of Debaltsevo. It was over Rassypnoye and was flying toward Debaltsevo. How I understood it.


#9 – 11:53-12:40 – July 18, 2014 – Information Regarding the Boeing from Igor Strelkov

– regarding Boeing 777, Flight MH17:

Igor Strelkov: According to the information received from the people who collected the corpses, a large number of the corpses are “not fresh” – these are people who died a few days ago. I cannot vouch for complete accuracy of this information – of course, we will have to wait for conclusions from forensic specialists.

– “Somebody of course must have been piloting this plane, which, to boot, would be impossible to leave. The theory that the plane was full of dead people is, of course, breathtaking; however, it does not seem to make sense.”

Igor Strelkov: First of all, not all the people in the plane were dead prior to the fall.

Second, a large quantity of medication, including blood serum and so forth, was found in the airplane, which is not characteristic of a regular airliner. It looks like there was some kind of special medical cargo on board.

Third, I do not insist on anything (for now). It’s just that only moments ago I spoke with two individuals who personally gathered the corpses after the crash (both of them are from Shakhtersk and arrived at the scene less than half an hour after the catastrophe). I am writing exactly what they told me. They emphasized that a large number of the corpses were “completely bloodless” – it’s as if their blood clotted long before the catastrophe. They also remarked that there was an overwhelming putrid corpse stench, which was also noted by many locals – a smell like that could not have formed in half an hour in any weather, let alone in the cloudy, temperate weather we had yesterday.

Fourth, while I am usually very suspicious of any “conspiracy theories” myself, but the 18 of our fighters that were poisoned with chemical weapons at their positions in Semyonovka, the executions of the militiamen’s family members and all other “small joys of Ukie patriots” have convinced me that the Ukrainian government is capable of any villainy.

The pilots were, of course, perfectly alive – the entire cabin (and the front part is well preserved) was literally bathed in their blood.


#8 – Ukrainian Military Reports to Poroshenko That Rebels Have Not Captured any BUKs

According to Vitaliy Yarema, in an interview to Ukrainskaya Pravda, military officials reported to President Poroshenko immediately after the shooting down of Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777, Flight MH17, that the rebels have not captured any BUK systems from the Ukrainian Armed Forces. This is further confirmed in a statement by the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence, published on June 30, 2014.

Further Information: “Militias do not have Ukrainian Buk missile system – Ukraine general prosecutor

KIEV, July 18. /ITAR-TASS/. Militias in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics do not have Ukrainian air defense missile systems Buk and S-300 at their disposal, Ukrainian Prosecutor-General Vitaly Yarema told Ukrainian Pravda newspaper on Friday.

“After the passenger airliner was downed, the military reported to the president that terrorists do not have our air defense missile systems Buk and S-300,” the general prosecutor said. “These weapons were not seized,” he added.

Ukrainian Interior Minister Anton Gerashchenko said on July 17 that the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 airliner had been downed by an air defense missile system Buk.

The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 airliner on the way from the Dutch city of Amsterdam to the Malaysian capital of Kuala Lumpur crashed in Ukraine on Thursday. All 298 people abroad the airliner died in the crash.


#7 – Eyewitness States Two Planes Following MH17, One Of the Craft Shot Down Boeing

Video: Father of Eyewitness Tells of the Crash of Boeing MH17 Over Ukraine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPcbFJSGk7E

Transcript of the Video

Narrator: Who shot it down? Today it was shot down, on [July] 17th.

Narrator: Continuing. The village of Grabovo. How was it? What did you son tell you?

Father of Eyewitness: Well, they were sitting there, on a hill. And, from behind the clouds … two airplanes were flying … one of the came out from behind the clouds.

Narrator: Military planes emerged?

Father of Eyewitness: Well, he does not understand. Then, with one shot, they shot down the second. And that’s it. The second plane, he says – with one shot. There was one shot and that’s it.

Narrator: And the one that was shot down was the civilian one? …

Father of Eyewitness: And two … one fell down, he says, and the second too … I did not bring my phone here, so I can’t call him.

[in the background] Ah, he saw a jet fighter … Of course …

Narrator: The village of Grabovo, in the Shakhtersk district. One the approaches to Grabovo, it fell. Keep looking for remains. Everything is burning. Aluminum has melted. All the casing.


#6 – Analysis from Anatolii Sharii

Video: The Tragedy of Boeing 777

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzcKcyHG_CY

Transcript of the Video

If we try to forget the shock that I, along with my beloved Netherlands, are currently experiencing over this tragedy, and try to make sense of this situation unemotionally, as much as it can be possible, then the very first steps of the analysis of the fate of this flight inspire very terrifying, saddening thoughts.

A Ukrainian journalist, Olga Bondarenko, identified this information and the two of us, as we are together at the moment, came to certain conclusions. The following is provided to you without commentary.

[the following is screen text]

The flight path for July 15, 2014

The flight path for July 16, 2014

How it flew on July 17, 2014

Here is where it was shot down

Let us overlay the flight path onto the map of Ukraine

This is the regular flight path

The flight path on July 17, 2014

The deviation from the regular flight path

An unidentified flying object enters the area where they should be no aircraft

Who shot down the Boeing?

condolences …


#5 – Video Material From the Site of MH17 Crash via LifeNews

Video: Exclusive Footage from the Site of Boeing’s Crash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfsV7ZcF2oI


#4 – Possible Alternative Video of MH17, Right Wing on Fire (via Vaughan Fomularo)

UPDATE: Dann Peroni (@roamer43) The video “#4 – Possible Alternative Video of MH17, Right Wing on Fire (via Vaughan Fomularo)” shows a clear blue sky, while in all other videos showing the crash site the sky is overcast!

Video: Malaysian Airlines plane being shot down LIVE! (July 17 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIlueJg4cA


#3 – Examining the Tickets and the Passports of Passengers of Flight MH17

Passports are hole-punched – this is what is done to passports when they are cancelled.


#2 – Comparing the Form of the Wing in the Video with the Wings of Boeing

COMPARISON


#1 – Video Purporting to be that of MH17 is Actually the Video of An-26 Shot Down Earlier

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Discussion

74 thoughts on “FINAL – Part II: Evidence Continues to Emerge #MH17 Is a False Flag Operation

  1. You need to go to FlightAware.com and look up the flight path of MH17. It was diverted to a more northern flight path while flying over Poland. This path took the plane directly over Donetsk. Find out who diverted the flight. Ukrainian Air Traffic Control maybe?

    Like

    Posted by Curious | July 18, 2014, 05:22
  2. This is the real video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIlueJg4cA
    That one you have is not of a 777 but an Antonov Prop Transport.

    Like

    Posted by Vaughan Famularo | July 18, 2014, 06:02
  3. The video “#4 – Possible Alternative Video of MH17, Right Wing on Fire (via Vaughan Fomularo)” shows a clear blue sky, while in all other videos showing the crash site the sky is overcast!

    Like

    Posted by Denn Peroni (@roamer43) | July 18, 2014, 08:57
  4. “a large quantity of medication, including blood serum and so forth, was found in the airplane, which is not characteristic of a regular airliner. It looks like there was some kind of special medical cargo on board.” There was a large number of AIDS experts on board I wonder if the blood/serum was for the their conference? but put nothing past the American/Ukraine SIS.

    Like

    Posted by jp | July 18, 2014, 09:51
  5. The holes in the Dutch passports should be riveted with hollow rivet rings. I speak as a former dual Dutch/South African (by birth) citizen. My question is whether boarding passes would be held on plane, rather than be collected at the gate.

    Like

    Posted by Johan Meyer | July 18, 2014, 10:44
  6. Sorry, I see the new Dutch passports don’t have the riveted holes anymore. If the passport has three holes in it, it should be expired and another passport should be issued to the same holder.

    Like

    Posted by Johan Meyer | July 18, 2014, 10:55
  7. #9 Blood serum could be related to those who were attending the AIDS conference in Melbourne Australia. The dead bodies of this conspiracy theory would have had to be in the hold as passengers were real. This is hard to comprehend under the circumstances

    Like

    Posted by the Editor | July 18, 2014, 11:54
    • The plane on the ground should be inspected: it is possible that Kiev shot down an Antonov cargo plane with blood serum etc. for wounded soldiers and that the MH17 fell somewhere else or didn’t fall. One witness claims three planes were in the sky and two fell. It would characterize the bloodless bodies as war dead, loaded in a transport plane that was shot down to claim rebels shot down passenger airplane.

      Like

      Posted by Brigitte Meier | July 20, 2014, 10:31
  8. Reblogged this on B. Peret's Blog.

    Like

    Posted by bperet | July 18, 2014, 16:02
  9. Boarding pass for onward flight to Bali. Read it very carefully.

    Like

    Posted by LeDahu | July 18, 2014, 17:25
  10. Could the bodies be from previous MH disaster?

    Like

    Posted by Sweet GIANT | July 18, 2014, 17:32
  11. Reblogged this on narwhal8915's Blog.

    Like

    Posted by narwhal8915 | July 18, 2014, 18:47
  12. The amazing results of the militia have changed the tactics of the US/Kiev, was the downing of the jet designed to blame Russia, allow NATO entry but the main thing allow public/media attention to force a ‘ceasefire’ so the NAZI Guard can escape?

    Then like the last so called ‘ceasefire’, UA will consolidate and redeploy using the new Polish and Lithuanian troops, Militia has exceeded all my expectations, from holding strategic commanding heights and forcing the UA air to reduce sorties to going on to large scale offensive actions!

    I do not want to give ammunition to he NAZI Trolls, but this has to be orchestrated from an outside agency, lets call it ethnic Russian Patriots, who heed the call for their people, I only wish Europeans would wake up and do the same, the crime cabal and EU/US empire is destroying our countries(TTIP).EUSSR!

    Russia and SDF need to get the press conferences organized and get their version and evidence out on the NET.

    The last thing is the MSM/Media blitz by NATO at the UNSC one voice(USA) calling the shots and giving the narrative for all subservients to follow it was sickening to watch, people in the EU know what is going on and need a focused outlet where they can participate in defeating this info war.

    Blogs like this contribute to getting the truth out and going someway to combat the lies.
    Thank you all @ No Limit to Our Anger (c) V. M. Molotov
    JP No surrender and victory to the Donbass citizens.

    Like

    Posted by jp | July 18, 2014, 20:28
  13. I don’t wan’t to engage in petty arguments so I only post some infos I gathered in another forum on the crush and the propaganda war afterwards by Ukraine which Western MSM fell victim to (I myself reserve judgement for later when facts are established):

    1.
    Here is someone dissecting the audio file “recorded” by the Ukrainian SBU. He came to the conclusion that it is very likely TWO audio files were merged.

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236054-Ukraine-discussion-thread-Or-the-original-Butthurt-thread&p=7287848&viewfull=1#post7287848

    2.
    Here someone dissects the video provided by the Ukrainian SBU which allegedly shows the BUK system moving to Russia over Krasnodon. He wrote regarding the billboard you can see in the video:

    “Some identified by the billboard that this Buk is in Krasnoarmeysk city which is under Ukrainian control since May 11. This same Buk we see on other videos. I believe all these videos of this Buk surfaced on Ukrainian official youtube channels where you cannot even leave a comment (just like those “intercepted calls”).

    On the billboard on the zoom-in you can see “богдан” (Bogdan), it is autosalon in Krasnoarmeysk on Dnepropetrovskaya 34 street. http://rst.ua/autosalons/?city=129&make=661&model=0 You cannot find such autosalon in Krasnodonsk city where this video is allegedly shot via Ukrainian officials/Avakov.”

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236054-Ukraine-discussion-thread-Or-the-original-Butthurt-thread&p=7287642&viewfull=1#post7287642

    3.
    One member of the forum, DonCity-2014, lives near the crash site. She wrote several facts one can work with:

    “it’s just terrible..I saw the photo and video..very very sorry…
    I am shocked-at first I thought that aviation started to bomb my city. And then it turned out that shot down the plane, and many people died.

    I have a lot of time to think,to repeat again and again that I heard in those moments(I couldn’t see..if climbed up the street a few hundred meters away – I could at least something to see).

    I was not alone,we went with my friend..I called her and asked what she had heard..I compared..Yes,we heard the same..

    we First heard the sound of the plane(I don’t know if you can hear the sound of the plane,which flies at an altitude of 10 000 m?)
    Then there were 2 “boom”(there were more than one. This is exactly).
    These sounds were with a difference in a very short time,perhaps a few seconds..it seems to Me that they did not differ from each other.
    Sounded the same,were from one direction,in my opinion(he forced us to raise their heads up,looking at the sky)..
    I did not feel the vibration(as it happens when the explosions on Saur-Grave)
    BUK can fire two missiles in a row shots?( or explosions,I don’t know)
    Time about 16:20(checked in the phone,because after a couple of minutes called native ,to say that I’m not worried)
    Then there was the smoke..very black.

    ‘S so guys..this is all I know
    I do not know how to interpret what I heard ..
    Excuse me, may be difficult to translate Google”

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236054-Ukraine-discussion-thread-Or-the-original-Butthurt-thread&p=7282526&viewfull=1#post7282526

    Like

    Posted by Jodocus Quak | July 19, 2014, 18:41
  14. A L L A R M E – NAZISMO – MAFIE – SETTE – STALKING – OLOGRAMMI – ARMI ENERGIA DIRETTA – MALATTIE – BIOFISICA E SEGNALI BIOLOGICI – MERITO – BUSTO GAROLFO

    In Busto Garolfo Mi-IT, e probabilmente altre località, individui collusi in associazioni a delinquere (come mafie) e/o di Stalker Organizzati a Gruppi (mercenari, terroristi, neonazisti, satanisti, adepti di sette, dipendenti di: Forze dell’Ordine – sicurezza – pubblica e privata, Servizi d’Intelligence e Militari od Ex-Militari Italiani e stranieri) che “operano” ed agiscono (in base o comunque a favore di piani strategici e “politici” imputabili all’Intelligence ed altri apparati degli U.S.A., finanziati per indebolire la nostra Economia, Società, ricchezza, Influenza Internazionale), in accordo con dipendenti e professionisti collusi collegati a società Straniere ed Italiane (connesse ai comparti chimico-farmaceutico, dell’aviazione-Difesa-Armamenti, Telecomunicazioni satellitari e terrestri, connesse a comparti gestione-manutenzione di Torri TLC, d’Informatica, Biotecnologie, scienze bio-chimiche-fisiche, sanitari, oltre ad altri), utilizzando a distanza dalle Vittime Civili (lunghi periodi e/o diversi anni, più o meno intensamente con crescente “spudoratezza”) “armi ad energia diretta” e strumentazioni di potenza o per segnali interferenti con biologia, per danneggiare, disturbare-bloccare il funzionamento di dispositivi elettronici (rimediabile spostando i dispositivi, “schermandoli”), incluse le antenne-automazioni, elettrodomestici e computer, firewall e server, cavi dati e telefonici, telefonini cellulari, cavi elettrici (applicazioni a Caronia?), per ledere le cellule, i tessuti (anche nervoso), gli organi del corpo Umano, disturbarne selettivamente il ‘funzionamento’ bio-chimico-fisico, intimorire/estorcere. Colpite-intimidite-plagiate Vittime primarie e loro conoscenti-parenti, cercate-proposte-intimate collusioni, usate forse evoluzioni del c.d. effetto Allan Frey.

    Sono usati quanti in “forme” invisibili ad occhio nudo, pertanto si può essere bersaglio e percepire sintomi ed effetti nell’immediato oppure no, se sono colpiti intensamente o significativamente i neuroni sensori oppure no. Si tratta di “ologrammi invisibili”: multi sorgenti e composizioni di effetti-segnali quantistici diretti nei volumi bersaglio ove si verificano interferenze significative. Per rendere dubbie le denunzie sono manovrate-colpite conoscenze ed usati Sanitari per screditare.

    Finalità: muovere soldi e proprietà verso collusi e fare tacere-screditare-annichilire Vittime-”pericoli” per gruppi-mandanti. Le seguenti sono gli argomenti ed campi di attività dell’associazione a delinquere locale. Cronaca nera e non solo, film, pseudo-documentari, varietà, testi di ogni genere, interviste, “share” e spazi pubblicitari: il classico mercato della cronaca. Professionisti e dipendenti “sensibili” ai problemi aziendali ed al proprio posto a qualunque costo nonché collusi con gli altri criminali. Carriera facilitata mediante la collusione con criminali sette ed altri gruppi. Testamenti, eredità, beni mobili ed immobili, eredi divisi, eredi prevaricanti sugli altri. Malattie vere o finte, create o da fare risultare anche per screditare, cure, dottori, medici, farmacisti ed industria farmaceutica o di medicina diagnostica. Club criminali e deviati “negli” Ordini professionali “nelle” Camere di Commercio. Culti new-age… Quel che riesce, riesce: maggiori cose riescono a fare tornare e maggiori profitti a fare fare, maggiore è la quota per i registi del crimine.

    Possibile che siano creati-usati Profili fasulli (temporaneamente) su SocialNetwork per screditare le Vittime. Vittime sono seguite (in senso lato) tramite localizzazione ed intercettazione, abusive, di segnali provenienti ed/od indirizzati ad i dispositivi per telecomunicazioni. Sottolineo che sono coinvolti informatici, dottori (psiche), CC-Militari, altri dipendenti ICT. Possibile che Vittime siano oggetto di stalking telefonico “non tradizionale”: usate, come chiamante, numerazioni altrui (diverse dal chiamante) per indurre in errore “bersagli”, effettuate-deviate chiamate senza passare da centraline del gestore usando intromissioni fisiche ed/od elettromagnetiche su cavi delle comunicazioni (inviando segnali telnet ed altri). Riguardo eventuali assoggettamenti ad effetti (simil) A.Frey si invita a non cadere in misticismi e plagi.

    Like

    Posted by andre1514 | July 20, 2014, 15:46
  15. What I find interesting is that the Ukraine government has insisted, from the very start, that a Buk missile downed the craft. There were two Ukrainian fighter jets in the vacinity at the time of the shootdown. Why were they there and why did they depart at the time of the shootdown. Were they there to escort the mh-17 to the kill zone, which would make sense? Or did they intercept the aircraft and down it at that point to incriminate the Ukrainian rebels? Keep in mind that prior to the disappearance of Malaysia flight 370, a fighter of unknown origen, crossed its path shortly before, or at the time of its disappearance. Coincidence? Hardly! There were navy ships in the area. The boeing 777 craft has a very sophisticatedand advanced radar system and is capable of evasive action in case of missile attack. The claim that they lost contact with 370 and then it changed course is nonsense. A plane that size has never disappeared and can’t disappear. The search and rescue effort was deliberately redirected from its initial route ( makes no sense). Coincidentally, Russias Presidential plane looks similar to a boeing 777 and has the same colors and paint pattern as the Malasysian 370 and mh-17. Now we know why the Malasyian 777 were targeted. With the destruction of the two flights, only two American citizens were killed; low collateral damage, making them acceptable targets and both are insured. Why down flight 370? Perhaps to test the lethality of a weapons system against the craft; to see if it can be done. It would be important to deliver a total destructive assault in order to insure that no one would survive. Now, we have accomplished many things. We know that a boeing 777 can be downed and by what means. Flight MH-17 was escorted into the kill zone and downed. It really doesn’t matter by what means; mission was accomplished. The path of debrie and trajectory of the fall will suggest the means. I tend to believe that it was air to air. This would be far more reliable for the intended outcome. Immediately, the west stated that it was ground to air, the BUK system, so that blame falls on the rebels. As I intially pointed out, there was absolutely no way to determine what had downed the flight, yet within ten minutes of the downing, Poroshenko, now a mass murderer, stated that it was downed by a ground to air missile in control of the rebels. That brings me to my last point. The similarities to the the aircraft suggest to me that they may be planning an assasination attempt on the Russian president and state that it was an accidental act of the Ukrainian rebels. Watch out. World war 3 is a possibility judging from the demented state of the western leaders.

    Like

    Posted by Boris M. Garsky | July 20, 2014, 16:37
  16. Was Carlos a Roman Catholic or a Jesuit himself?

    Like

    Posted by Winston | July 20, 2014, 19:04
  17. Reblogged this on toolwielder and commented:
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    Posted by toolwielder | July 20, 2014, 19:48
  18. Well, I’d like to add some more depth to #12.

    Let’s not forget that this machine is designed to glide so long as the control surfaces can be powered. This would mean that the plane was likely shot at much further into Ukrainian government controlled space than we see here.

    Once telemetry data is obtained more can be determined.

    Personally, after 2001 where it took the Ukraine a full week to ‘fess up, it would not surprise me if the Kiev government forces were the responsible party here.

    Like

    Posted by bitterbluecanuck | July 20, 2014, 20:33
  19. It seems to me that the original path of MH-17 must have changed due to the impact of any missile. If so: is it still possible that the remains came down at ground zero as a calculated result of that effect? As it seems to me sheer impossible to calculate that curve, a false flag operation sounds less reasonable to me. Someone into ballistics could help here.

    Dutch passports are beeing made “invalid” by punching holes in it. To my information only by special request an invalid passport is handed over to the “previous” owner. As many other people i was surprised seeing so much passports so mint and so quick in the media. Remindend me on the 9/11rubbish heap. On the other hand: most people keep their passport well hidden in bags or otherwise. This might explain that mint condition?

    Another “coincidence” to me with 9/11 is the rapid release of info, especially that tapped and recorded phonecall. Within a few hours they had this information (resourched on the highest levels of secrecy) while it took more than 2 days to have any passengerslist declared official. The latter seems to me a simple administrative action.

    Why is it that nobody yet officially claimed this act of terrorism/war anyway? Might it be a real accident that nobody wants to take responsibility for?

    Why does NATO nor Russia nor China keep their satelite/AWACS or other radar-images for themselves? Is it a secret to see where the missile was launched? Or does it show an air-to-air attack instead of ground-based? Does someone play a foul card, taking advantage out of this beeing an tragic accident in essence?

    Does anyone know (airplane spotters?) what plane really lifted off at Amsterdam Airport (photo’s on the strip). Are all numbers corresponding to what is known? Which numbers did MH-370 and/or it’s twin have?

    Is it coincidence that Israel plays a major role on Diego Garcia, MH-370’s twin was spotted parked on a Israeli base, security on Amsterdam Airport is done by an Israeli corporation.

    Pictures of this broken wing having traces of bullet-fire seem from a less smaller plane. This can be verified by aviation experts.

    Just some thoughts on this disaster.

    Like

    Posted by Jan | July 21, 2014, 09:12
  20. @ #9 Strelkov says (quote): The pilots were, of course, perfectly alive – the entire cabin (and the front part is well preserved) was literally bathed in their blood.

    I try to get this in perspective. Anyone? The pilots are those from MH-17? Why did he say “of course, perfectly alive”. Doesn’t that make sense?

    Like

    Posted by Jan | July 21, 2014, 09:45
  21. As of today, the flight paths have been changed on flightaware.com to reflect the story that the airline was flying a regular route. Smells fishy….

    Like

    Posted by jr62 | July 21, 2014, 16:26

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