Interview with Alexej Mozgovoi, August 21, 2014
Translator: Maria Razdiak
Edited by S. Naylor
“If we were to speak of the operations which my unit carried out, I must caution: the word “operations” is an exaggeration. Currently, the war is mainly being fought in the media field: an information war. The actual military activity is merely an extension. It is of utmost importance, for Ukraine, to destroy the idea for which we stand and the weapons merely aid the physical destruction of the people who carry these ideals in their hearts.
“We used to be, by structure and organization (by accumulating miners, taxi-drivers, farmers in our ranks), a battalion. Now we’ve grown into a brigade.
“In actuality, that which we had been engaging in is difficult to call an “operation” per se. This is despite the fact that we work with maps, organize reconnaissance, and abide by staff timetables, as required in a military unit. We locate the whereabouts of the enemy units, of materiel, and of the movements of the enemy.
“We have altered our original tactics. The main flaw of the initial design was the fact that we viewed this war as purely a physical struggle, whereas the Ukraine forces are not only incapable of fighting clean but also do not desire to. What does it matter to them? They have rocket launchers; they have Grads, Uragans, Smerches – why not use them? And they do. Also they call their operation the ATO – ‘Anti–Terrorist Operation’. But where, in what country, does an entire army fight against terrorism?
“In my understanding, a fight with terrorism is a localized measure, a special operation. Once you destroy the terrorists, you are done. But this war has already lasted six months, and is gradually becoming harsher and bloodier with every passing day.
“Here are the outlines of a few situations in which my unit has participated. I will start with the failures – the defence of Lisichansk. To suppress our forces, Ukraine threw eleven thousand men at us. Our lack of success was characterised by the fact that we were still true to the original tactics – the tactics of a clean fight: creating a clear front, setting up checkpoints. That was a mistake. This war, constructed by Ukies, is built on deceit: from the news to the battlefield; and because we were expecting a clean fight, we suffered casualties. I feel the loss of my men, most severely. For me, a loss of even a few individuals is a painful blow.
“Yes, we have won fights; we pushed the enemy and they have retreated, but they always returned, in greater numbers, with more weaponry. Here is a shining example of this pattern. They set up a checkpoint at Staraya Krasnyanka, between Kremennoye and Rybezhnoye. We worked it over ten times. One day we destroy it; the next morning it is already manned with new people. Today – destroy, tomorrow morning – new people. Ukies load up Kamaz trucks with corpses and straight away, bring in new personnel – new men destined to become corpses the following day.
“One gets the impression that their personnel are not informed about what is happening. The newcomers do not know what happened to their predecessors. They arrive uplifted, ignorant of their future. What they think about at the time of arrival is a mystery. They are surrounded by the clear signs of a recent struggle: the transport, the checkpoint, everything stained a dirty crimson. Those fresh forces are blameless people; obligated into service, and threatened with prison. If you don’t join the military, you’ll spend 7 years locked-up. They are incapable of putting aside life for 7 years. They go to war, hoping to survive.
“The tactics of the Ukrainian army can be summed up in this: they have placed the full weight of war upon the artillery and the rocket launchers. They commence an attack with a purge of territory, which they do using Grads and self-propelled artillery systems.
“They call it targeted attacks but the outcomes of such attacks are huge areas, whole squares swept “clean”. Afterwards, the tanks arrive with means to destroy in case anyone is left alive somewhere. Finally, their armoured personnel carriers follow, manned with soldiers to finish up. It seems like their tactics are unbeatable. That is the reason why we’ve changed our own tactics.
“Even though we have grown in numbers, I refuse to send men into the open. We prefer to work in saboteur-reconnaissance groups (“SRG”): they went, they saw, they worked, and they returned. That’s all. We work on their communications; we work on their distributions and their ammunition warehouses. If they don’t have ammo, they don’t have the ability to fire.
“Only yesterday I was informed about the destruction of a column of 10 Urals trucks that were delivering the missiles for the Grads, which were headed toward Donetsk. What can be more effective? Even if they have the launchers, without the shells those are simply piles of scrap metal, ballast. We hit them with RPGs and “Shmels” grenade launchers.
“My original profession was in the creative field. I was a conductor of a wind (brass) orchestra but, even before the war, I didn’t work in that field. I worked as a builder, as a brigadier. Now, I’m in charge of a mortar battery – also a wind “instrument”. That’s life.
“From early childhood I dreamed of being a military man. Back then, we had a Defence Minister called Kuzmuk; he was part of Kuchma’s government. The levels of corruption in the army had reached head-spinning hights and I failed to get into the Academy.
“The main thing now is to allow for the maximum survival of our troops. Because it is these men, spread among the units, who carry the Will of the People. Because it is these men who can become the basis, the pillars, of everything we fight for, that is the reason why these men are targets: they can create a government, an administration of the People, a collaborative force, They are absolutely essential to our future and because of that I am desperate to protect them.
“I think that Novorossiya will be a Republic – an autonomous part of Russia. I stand for the creation of the exemplary governance that is required, within the sovereign Republic of Novorossiya. Taking that as a foundation for future regulation and direction, correction and distribution among the other regions; for currently it is not only Ukraine and Russia that are suffering from a political crisis, but the whole world.
“It is one thing to wish for an ideal government, while sitting in a café and modelling such from reading books, but it is another thing when —in order to win it in battle and to conquer destroyed territory— the ideal government model must take a step back, delayed into the future, to allow room for the necessary, super-centralised, military present.
“The commanders act in unison. There is a coordinating centre, Headquarters. At this moment in time, all the puzzle pieces have come together: there is a single control centre, a Council of War, and good, secure, communications among the commanders. The same picture is held true for both regions, Lugansk and Donetsk; and it has united the military. Occasionally, the unit commanders meet up, but combining all the units in one place might have dire consequences. Currently, our people are dotted throughout different garrisons. The more complex and confusing are our actions, the more spread out we are, the greater are the chances of our survival, which is presently the main objective.
“There are now ranks in a brigade. We have Brigade Commanders, Deputy Brigade Commanders, Heads of Units and Battalion Commanders; we have Squad Leaders, a Logistics Deputy, Head of Medical, Head of Communications. The whole staff structure is filled with real people. The majority of them were yesterday’s labourers who truly want to fight. If all we are left with is one single unit, we will still have a lot to show.
“The dominating figure is Igor Strelkov. He must be not only dominating, but unique. I came to him when it all started and stood under his command. His ideal is identical to mine and he honestly fights for it.
“How can I formulate that idea? Conscience. That is what a human must have, a conscience. Honour and dignity; virtue. Righteousness. All else is just chatter. The main thing is to have a conscience; preferably, a spotless one. It is that conscience, which is constantly tested and tempted by war – it is a constant trial of conscience, of virtue. War is a litmus paper. Every person is clearly seen for what they are, be it a private or a general.
“Certain shocks to our society are necessary, healthy even. But war is bad.
“The events of the Maidan have prompted talks: the western Ukrainians are passionate people. The South-Eastern people are sluggish and sleepy Russians – their fire extinguished. But, it is in the South-East, where we are suddenly flaming – the fire is scorching and blinding.
“Maidan chanted against Oligopoly and against the corrupt officials,; a Great notion. While they danced for the truth, we went to work, earning a living. The result of their “dance” was pain. They went from the frying pan into the fire. The government didn’t just change, it went from bad to worse: the same Oligarchs, the same corrupt ministers and officials, the same stale faces, selling power, influence and people, which they were obliged to guide and protect. What changed? Suddenly the same people were marching to protect the government! That is absurd, strikingly so. I cannot put away the amazement at my own nation. They should be fighting against the people who have pushed them into this war but, instead, they are dying for them.
“What was the point of Maidan? What was it? Why orchestrate this bloody spectacle, which only worsened the situation, as an alternative to some sort of constructive action? This behaviour is the result of totalitarian propaganda.
“The rank of Political Commander (“Politruk”) was made obsolete sometime ago. In the Ukrainian army ‘politruks’ became educators. In the most basic of terms: no political questions were raised, no political direction was given; only the psychological state of the enlisted was kept at a certain level. Even in the army, it turns out, blocked the path of patriotism although it is the only authority on which patriotism should stand .
“Regrettably, my brigade lacks Politorgans ( Political Organisation?). It’s hard to create a conventional military unit from a farmer and a builder. But –even with a desperate lack of specialists– to create the exact system as it should be, has turned into my task. We have a brigade information centre, which collects and distributes information to and from the “great land”, so to say.
“We get the information from the internet but the Ukies are constantly attempting to cut us off. Both mobile and satellite communications disappear for days at a time. We are constantly changing our location. Our area of responsibility is in the front line on the flanks of the Pervomajsk, Artemovsk and Debaltsevo, the precise track that the Ukies follow down, and Veselaja – Tarasovka-Lutugino.
“We have problems with our provisions. The market stalls may be empty, but we’ve located warehouses within the city, filled with meat, fish, and poultry which, for some strange reason, failed to make it into the shops. It turns out, the warehouses belong to the same owner. We confiscated the contents. All of it has been given away, to kindergartens, orphanages and the needy. For us, food is what unites our people: our Russian populations, and by separate individuals who give but ask that they not be mentioned. We are thankful for everything we get.
“The struggle will most definitely continue. The main thing now is to keep our spirit – the spirit of committment, the aspiration and the hope for truth and victory. If our people keep all three, we will be victorious. Yes, we have Lugansk and Donetsk, but the territory of Novorossia is not just these two cities. The territory of Novorossia is huge; I believe, it will aid us greatly.
“There is war weariness among civilians. After the first couple of weeks of war, they were already screaming “we are tired of it!” I ask the question “How would you have reacted if this were the Second World War? Your grandfathers fought, spending years in the trenches. Were they not tired? You just heard shots fired, watched the news of someone’s death, and you are already tired.” Today, it is virtually the same war, fighting the same Fascism.
“The men that are in combat, they are not tired. Sometimes, I even struggle to hold them back, hoping to avoid needless deaths and casualties. The men, who stand in the line of fire, are ready to fight to the last.
“The miners have been slow to join the resistance. There is talk, that if the miners would rise, Kiev would disappear… But, for the time being, most of them still go down into the mines. Back when we stood near Lisichansk, the Ukies fired upon one of the mines – Krivoljanskaja. It was night and the night-shift was down there. All of them almost died. But the next day, they all came back, to work!!!
“Another story… Another area south of Sverdlovsk. A bus full of miners, men and women, was shot at from a Ukrainian block-post. Just shot at! The Ukies didn’t know who was aboard, they just shot at those people who were going to work. I have a question for those people: “What do you think about, driving past the war and the shooting?” Do they think about work, about a slice of bacon? About what? There is a war on; they are killing you! Civilians, going to work like sheep into a slaughter house, not even resisting!
“Is it the fear of losing a job? “How will I feed the family?” But, what do the families of the resistance eat? What do the children of the men that protect you, eat? Yes, it’s difficult now, very difficult, but they understand that it’s time to forget about an excellent borsht, a well-laid table. If there is something on the table – that’s enough. The main thing is to endure and to win, to prove that we are not a herd, not a biomass (as Timoshenko stated), but that we are people, individuals. We are people; we are ready to hold the government true to their promises.
“In the brigade are heroes; there are the heroically fallen. Heroism is most evident among the generation which caught all those old movies, books, and tales of grandfathers and grandmothers. It’s in their blood: if not me, then who? I must, and that’s all.
“Right now, the Commander of the first platoon of Vladimir lies in hospital. He’s a heroic individual, awarded with a medal “For Military Merit”. Thanks to his dedication and utter disregard of self, his troop survived. Another unit also survived following Vladimir’s orders to retreat from approaching tanks while he remained. Alone. We had a hand-made personnel carrier that we nicknamed “Combat”. We sewed it up with armaments, armoured it with a gun. Vladimir remained inside, fighting – alone! – holding back the enemy; covering his troops until they retreated to safety.
“Eventually a shell hit “Combat” and ripped his arm from his body. He passed out. At the time of impact, the wound was burned. Thus, the wound was cauterized: there was hardly any bleeding. After some time, Vladimir regained consciousness and noticed that his arm was torn off, hanging by a thread of skin. He took the arm and put it into his coat, buttoned up and started walking. 24 hours, he walked. Alone! He managed to escape from the surrounding forces – avoided all enemy posts! From all the weapons, he had a Makarov with a single bullet, just in case. The right arm was tucked into the coat; the left held a gun. The severed limb was not saved.
“Another episode of courage: One of the first battles in Lisichansk back when we had block-posts. We had a guy, Dima, who was killed right at the beginning of the military action. Thanks to his acuteness, proficiency and self-sacrifice, many survived. He took the whole Ukie fire – all the guns turned on him. All of them. Once the unit had arrived from the march, it was necessary to start helping to hold the Jandovskij block-post. While everyone was still getting into position, at that moment Dima hit the target causing the enemy to fire upon himself and he was the first to be killed. Because of his actions, the others survived. Not only did they continue the fight but they managed to push the Ukies back, destroying the block-post they had occupied. All due to the sacrifice of one man.
“This is who we must be – heroes, knights. Because we are Russian, we are Slavs, we cannot be anything else. We do not have the right to be anything else.
“From the weapons we hold – MANPADS and paired ZAUs (automatic anti-aircraft guns) – we work the planes. But the Ukies, once they figured out that we can get them, changed tactics; they don’t descend to the height where we can hit them, but drop bombs from far above, of a massive size. They drop two or three, and disappear.
“The Ukies claim to be fighting terrorism, while bombarding peaceful, innocent civilians, destroying whole city blocks and infrastructure. All of it! How is that?! If you are at war with us, fight us. But instead, they bombard cities and blame it on us… How? We have proof of the bombings: the weapons used and the directions from which the fire came. The flight trajectory can be calculated from the remaining crater. But, there is no arguing their impudent allegations; the unfounded, falsified fault.
“Before, it was commonly believed that such a war with field commanders, a civil war, is a disaster. It is difficult to organise, to create a common structure. Uncontrollable elementary forces, liberties. are impossible to control. Yes, sometimes you have to shout, punish, and send men into lock-up, once a certain line is crossed. Every military establishment has its own breaches but we are bound together by the same idea, united by a common belief. If we want to accomplish anything, we must be disciplined and structured. That stayed with us from the beginning – from that very first unit we formed. Even before the military attacks commenced, I began to organize a resistence of the People because I could see that it was necessary to be ready. Even then, we agreed that we must reach our final aim – we must be victorious. The rest, as to who was right and who was to blame, we’ll let time decide. A clear structure has formed, and all are true to it.
“The fight began when such categories as Novorossia, did not exist. This concept arose in the course of battles and gradually grows more and more, and gains more meanings. Now Novorossia is not just a territory, it is primarily an idea. Liberty and Conscience is and will be the new Russia “.
Original Post here.
SLAVYANGRAD.org 
Freedom | vgiannelakis
http://vgiannelakis.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/freedom/
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Posted by rizes | Aug 29, 2014, 20:08Reblogged this on An Average American Woman.
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Posted by Elaine Ossipov | Aug 29, 2014, 20:33What a wonderful essay!!
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Posted by gerryhiles | Aug 29, 2014, 21:14inspiring
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Posted by mikebottis | Aug 30, 2014, 23:51Reblogged this on gerryhiles and commented:
Wonderful essay!!
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Posted by gerryhiles | Aug 29, 2014, 21:16Absolutely wonderful job on this Translation by Maria Razdiak and S. Naylor. I was really moved.
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Posted by Hugo Turner | Aug 29, 2014, 21:28With people and spirits like Alexei Mozgovoi’s there should be no fear for the future. As to the war currently going on in Novorossia, it can only end with the full success in the field of these wonderful ideals, which are an inspiration to us all, to the whole of Humanity. Salud, Camarada!!
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Posted by spartacus3011 | Aug 30, 2014, 12:22“… Certain shocks to our society are necessary, healthy even. But war is bad.” [Mozgovoi]
“… This is who we must be – heroes, knights. Because we are Russian, we are Slavs, we cannot be anything else. We do not have the right to be anything else.” [Mozgovoi]
Some time ago Odin’s Raven asked some profound and critical questions about the goals and ideas of the Separatist Movement of Donbas here on this blog, which made me think. Maybe Odin’s Raven – as his nick suggests – feels himself being affected by ‘Nordic & Aryan’ ideals positively. Don’t know – and it doesn’t matter – because his observations about the situation are fair. Let me be clear about this: I am no friend of ‘Nordic & Aryan’ ideals at all – I am even no friend of any kind of extremism, as it is a sure way to get masses of humans killed. History has proven this fact over and over again – and I am quite tired to list examples everybody knows by heart.
So, I just want to continue Raven’s tradition of asking critical questions:
1. If Mozgovoi has the idea, that ‘war is bad’ – and is therefore no solution to a society’s problems, as there will be ever more and more hurt and dead humans on both sides of the conflict: which concept of ending the Civil War has the Separatist Movement, beside WINNING the war? Because: there is a chance, that this war is dragging on and on – and becomes a WAR OF ATTRITION (like a mini-scale WW1), in fact, it is already. Is there any possibility for peace talks, compromises and negotiations with Kiev – before whole Donbas and the rest of Ukraine is a ghetto of jobless and poor people in ruins – and with no hope other than American, European, Russian or International money!?
2. How deeply routed is the Separatist Movement regarding ideas which could be coined under the terms ‘Panslavism’, ‘Eurasian Movement’, ‘White Movement’ and similar pools of concepts, which share ANTILIBERAL, ZARISTIC or STALINISTIC STATE MODELS and RASSISTIC IDEALS, like Superiority of Slavs versus ‘Atlanteans’ and a strict Antisemitism, coupled with Praise for the Orthodox Church ONLY? I refer to ideas of the Dugin-ilk, where ARCHAIC SOCIETY and WAR are common topics against LIBERAL SOCIETY and its Couch-Potatoes. Well, for me, that smells of Right Wing Extremism – and the only difference to the Fascism of Kiev is in the side of the conflict. So, in short, is this Civil War a conflict between Ultra-Nationalists and Right Wing Extremists on both sides? Mozgovoi is speaking of political ambitions of the ‘Slavic Heroes’ after the war. So, what roles are people like Strelkov playing in this bloody game – or wanna play? And, of course, this Civil War is no Reenactment, not of 1815, not of 1915, nor of 1945 – it’s moving towards 2015 – and there is the danger of large-scale war, if the Separatist Movement wants to ‘push the boundaries’. Novorussia shell be 50% of Ukraine? The Ancient, Holy and Glorious Rus of Kiev also integrated into the Republic, which would be formed by the former ‘Warriors of Light’? Poland attacked!? This would be the outbreak of serious international war, for sure. Is this part of the concepts of the Separatist Movement? Perhaps an Eurasian Empire from Lisbon to Moscow? And how will I cope with that Empire – as I am a Liberal Leftist German – and no Slav!? Lots of questions.
3. I know, that there are other ideas and traditions in the Separatist Movement (more Leftist and Working Class Movement). How do they develop?
I guess, 95% of the population of Ukraine don’t want this Civil War. They even don’t know exactly, how it all started. They are just crying, starving, dying or … go to work. There is not much else to do – and those people don’t want to do anything else, especially not KILLING other people. The rest of 5% are warmongering, finding themselves in 2 groups:
1. Kiev fascists and the poor, pressured conscripts are fighting for SURVIVAL.
2. The Novorussia Militia is fighting for SURVIVAL.
And that I would just coin as the AUTOMATISM OF THE WAR MACHINE.
So, what is the solution for Ukraine – heroism, knighthood, slavism, nationalism, fascism and religion aside?
Feel free to answer.
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Posted by Historian | Aug 30, 2014, 14:43“How deeply routed is the Separatist Movement regarding ideas … ” [Historian]
Ehrr … I mean ‘rooted’, I guess. 😛
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Posted by Historian | Aug 30, 2014, 16:33A prolix way of saying nothing. Who cares what or who you are, you’re as original as a car tire. Not everybody in this world shares your German liberal values, more and more people are sick of them. You’re coming off very patronizing, kinda like the Nazis who said they were gonna civilize the savages in the East, Drang nach Osten, or whatever the hell it’s called in kraut language, only this time under a different guise.
This struggle is against the ideology you people are so wanting to sell, and in whose name countless victims emerge every day, all on your tax money. Don’t look for fascists, outside, look for them on the inside, yours too.
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Posted by vaz | Aug 31, 2014, 00:05“A prolix way of saying nothing.” [VAZ]
Then, @VAZ, just read my lines again, more carefully – or just ignore them, if you are not interested.
“Who cares what or who you are … ” [VAZ]
I do.
” … you’re as original as a car tire” [VAZ]
Sorry, mate, I apologize for that!
“Not everybody in this world shares your German liberal values, more and more people are sick of them.” [VAZ]
Don’t know, if my Liberal values are German, but they are Liberal, Leftist Liberal. That there are others in this world, who do not share Liberal values, but rather UNLIBERAL == DESPOTIC ones, yeah, @VAZ, that’s the reason for my questions.
“You’re coming off very patronizing …” [VAZ]
Hey, no, @VAZ, if you look at my comments on this blog, you would learn, that I am sympathizing with the Separatist Movement right from the start, as I watched the roles of US-EU and Kiev in this drama very closely. I know, who Obama, Barroso, Hollande, Merkel, Poroshenko, Yatseniuk and all the rest are, and I know their goals. And I also know, that there are Militia Fighters from ‘Borotba’ and
other Leftist Movements, who are under Police Oppression by Kiev – and with whom I can sympathize.
I just asked for specific ideologies of BOTH SIDES OF THE CONFLICT, to understand better, what’s going on in Donbas. There is a reason, why Borodai and his close friend Strelkov ‘left’ the main political positions in Donetsk recently, don’t you think? Do you know, that they have published in the same press organ (Alexander Prochanov’s ultra-nationalistic ‘Zavtra’) – and do you know, WHAT they are publishing? The same old tired and bloody Right Wing Shit of Nazi Yesteryear – just with Russian touch and perspective. And you are comparing ME with the Nazis, @VAZ?
” … kinda like the Nazis who said they were gonna civilize the savages in the East … ” [VAZ]
WRONG. You do not know German Nationalsocialism for sure, @VAZ. There were 2 steps of ‘colonizing’ the East by the Nazis: 1) extermination of a solid percentage of Russians to make some ‘Lebensraum’ for German settlers 2) DEcivilizing the surviving population of Russia to build a SAVAGE SLAVE CLASS for German needs.
I think, you do not know a shit, what you are writing, @VAZ.
“This struggle is against the ideology you people are so wanting to sell … ” [VAZ]
First, @VAZ, don’t confuse MY position with that of my countrymen or other ‘Westerners’ and Second, I doubt that. If Novorussia is build on a Right Wing Military State – as Mozgovai seems to be hinting at – what’s the point then? Why not just let Poroshenko rule over Donbas? I tell you, @VAZ, lots of people will die, if Fascism of a Russian or Ukrainian color is installed in Donbas. And I don’t like the idea. If you do, well, then you do, as you seem to be ‘sick’ of Liberal values.
By the way, @VAZ, what’s your Nationality?
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Posted by Historian | Aug 31, 2014, 19:20When you decide to frame the debate in such ‘elevated’, abstract-theoretical terms, you run the risk of completely missing the facts and the truth on the ground level, the deep humanity and emotion embedded in Mozgovoi’s words. Paraphrasing Antoine de Saint Exupery: “The essential is invisible to the eye; you can only perceive it with your heart”. Moreover, the pretension of equidistance and detachment in your argument is fallacious, for it is absolutely necessary in each circumstance to determine who the aggressor is, and who is resisting the aggression and beyond that putting up a fight against evil… for there is indeed, in all human circumstances, good and evil (even if not always clear cut; and indeed not put in absolute terms), victims and executioners. Which side are you taking?
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Posted by spartacus3011 | Aug 31, 2014, 11:20“When you decide to frame the debate in such ‘elevated’, abstract-theoretical terms, you run the risk of completely missing the facts and the truth on the ground level” [Spartacus]
No, @Spartacus. My terms are common sense and concrete, not ‘elevated’ or ‘abstract’. Everybody knows, what I am talking about: POLITICAL GOALS & VALUES. E.g.: “I do not torture people, because I think, they are different from me” versus “I have the right and obligation to torture people, if I think, they are different from my people – because then, they must be INFERIOR.” That kind of stuff, you know.
The facts are crystal clear: a Kiev Fascist Regime wants to regain control over a Core Region of its State Territory – and depopulate it at the same time for obvious and economical reasons. The first part is legitimate and the cause of the Civil War – the second part is utterly evil, as it is directed against civilians. Kiev is the aggressor here, Novorussia the defender. BUT: who provoked the aggression of Kiev by occupying the State Administration – self-armed and self-defending – against … WHAT? The Policy of Kiev? Of the West? What was in the beginning of the conflict? I tell you: different ideas, different people in Donbas. Now, only those, who wanted to play the WARGAME right from the start, like Strelkov, are left over. Did they anticipate, what they were triggering? Now, the options are very, very limited, like in every war.
” … for there is indeed, in all human circumstances, good and evil (even if not always clear cut; and indeed not put in absolute terms), victims and executioners. Which side are you taking?” [Spartacus]
You said so. So – good and evil – not very clear cut, right?
I have heard rumors, that ‘drug-addicts’ were shot at Slavjansk, when the Novorussia Militia was ruling there – because of … well, a New State must be cleaned of ‘human scum’!? I also do not believe, that the Militia is not killing and torturing suspects of espionage, sabotage or POW – I have seen too much swollen faces and eyes on YT, too much fear and pain, you know. Those are emotions too.
My general principle of looking at a conflict is: don’t get infiltrated by hate. So I have a clear mind and view on the subject.
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Posted by Historian | Aug 31, 2014, 20:04“The facts are crystal clear: a Kiev Fascist Regime wants to regain control over a Core Region of its State Territory – and depopulate it at the same time for obvious and economical reasons. The first part is legitimate and the cause of the Civil War…”
That’s a weird statement, the end result of applying a heartless and twisted logic, like what the USA-NATO and their vassal EU governments are using all along (national sovereignty, territorial integrity), to justify their support of a radically illegal and by their actions criminal regime, installed in Kiev by a coup d´etat orchestrated by USA’s Department of State and CIA, following a textbook fascist provocation executed by thugs trained and armed by the above. Do you remember what happened in Kiev’s Independence Square February 19-21, Odessa May 2, Mariupol May 9, the downing of civilian airplane MH17 on July 17? What would you expect, that the people of the Donbass, or Russia for that matter, should just step aside and let them have their way, to accept the tyranny and genocidal drive of an illegal-criminal regime so that to avoid the disasters of war? Just think about the implications of your devious logic!
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Posted by spartacus3011 | Aug 31, 2014, 21:51Ok, @Spartacus, then we must talk about, whether the UKRAINIAN STATE still exists – or not, in your opinion. You would argue: Kiev is an illegal Marionette of EU-USA, which it is – and I would refer to the fact, that EVERY power sitting in Kiev would try to regain control over Donbas for the sole reason of survival as a state. Regaining control over state territory does not necessarily mean war or atrocities against civilians. That’s, why I talked about the ‘utterly evilness’ of Kiev’s depopulation agenda. You are reading a heartlessness and twistedness into my lines, which are not there. And you are mixing up all of the CHRONOLOGY of this Civil War.
Do you remember, how it all started – at Slavjansk?
Peaceful people tried to stop the tanks of the Ukrainian Army with their bare hands, elderly pushed aside.
But, at the same time, Strelkov came to town, with 60 armed men – and organized a MILITARY defense of Slavjansk. There was MILITARY upbuilding on BOTH sides of the conflict – and by certain people with certain ideas, which are not THAT much different, you know. THAT is the core of my thesis. Strelkov, in his own words, wanted to ‘help the people of Slavjansk to express themselves as Slavs …’ and he was quite disappointed, that ‘only 2000’ took arms (out of perhaps 50.000 people left).
Ask people at Slavjansk now, what they think about the Civil War – and its source, if you can find somebody still alive.
Militia was even not able to protect the civilians, as in Donetsk, as in Lugansk, as everwhere. It’s a complete mess, it’s a human catastrophe of utmost proportions – and it’s only the beginning, I am sure. If I am not able to protect civilians from harm in the combat zone by occupying their town, abusing them as a military base, then I am co-responsible for any casualties. Ask any victim of shelling, they would tell you the same.
You know, @Spartacus, I am becoming more and more sceptical, that fighting was the right answer … .
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Posted by Historian | Sep 1, 2014, 02:07You seem to have forgotten the Junta’s threats to abolish the Russian language and to ethnically cleanse S & E Ukraine, right at the start.
You seem to have forgotten the Odessa massacre and the heavy assaults which began long before the Militia got even a little organized.
You seem to be treating the underdog Novorussians the same way Palestinians get treated by the West, where it’s always argued that “they started it” and the vastly disproportional power is never mentioned.
Exactly what are you trying to achieve with your arm-chair analysis, which ignores real, everyday facts on the ground?
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Posted by gerryhiles | Sep 1, 2014, 03:21BTW are you accusing the Militia of using “human shields”? Your comments do seem awfully similar to Zionist ones about Hamas, Hezbollah and whomever else they attack.
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Posted by gerryhiles | Sep 1, 2014, 03:51I am forgetting not a single fact, @Gerry, as I followed the events right from the start, as you could see in my comments a while back.
I try to achieve with my ‘armchair analysis’ (in contrast to your position, @Gerry, as you are directly fighting at the frontline, I suppose?), that people take a CLOSER look at the involved parties in this Civil War. You know, @Gerry, Donbas is big – there are lots of people there, with VERY different opinions and political ideas – but only very few are in charge and power, like in Kiev.
Just read the last entry on this blog (the Ural-journalist’s eyewitness-account) – and you know, what I mean.
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Posted by Historian | Sep 1, 2014, 04:24Yep, @Gerry, human shield abuse – by definition.
Don’t you think, that it’s really naive to even try to argue, that in EVERY modern warfare scenario, which takes place in an urban environment, human shield abuse could and will be avoided?
Do you believe, the Militia is taking care of the environment and the buildings, when fighting in Ilovaisk or in the Saur-Mogila villages? There used to live people.
Do you know the effect of 2 days of mortar/artillery/tank shelling on the infrastructure? I think, you do.
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Posted by Historian | Sep 1, 2014, 04:41Of course, but I doubt that you really do, unless you to have lived in war zones and/or been in emergency services … I have done both.
In any case you did not answer my questions, but instead went on the attack, like Zionists and other trapped ideologues do.
I have you tagged mr historian, you are not as clever as you imagine yourself to be.
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Posted by gerryhiles | Sep 1, 2014, 07:05A reply to “Historian”:
Again, this is a perverse way of thinking. With your arguments the message you are conveying would read as follows: “To all the oppressed, destitute, persecuted peoples of the World, all victims of aggression: There is no point in resisting your masters’ superior will, kneel into submission, lay down your arms, surrender! As Gerryhiles in this section suggested, this is at the core of Netanyahu’s attitude towards the people of Gaza, and all Palestinians. You are to blame for the death and destruction falling upon you. How you dare to resist the will of the Chosen People, the superior civilizing drive of the State of Israel, there is no point in your irrational resistance to our will, we will completely destroy you! Incidentally, this wicked ideology is also at the core of Poroshenko’s so called “peace plan” for the Donbass: lay down your arms, surrender, and it will all be all right afterwards! Is this the kind of ideology you are espousing and trying to persuade us to accept, Historian?
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Posted by spartacus3011 | Sep 1, 2014, 12:16Who went on the attack first, @Gerry, by calling me out as an ‘armchair theorist’?
I am able to handle and fire a Leopard-tank turret – as I was instructed to do. So I know, what I am talking about, @Gerry.
“In any case you did not answer my questions.” [Gerry]
Question 1 by Gerry:
“Exactly what are you trying to achieve with your arm-chair analysis, which ignores real, everyday facts on the ground?”
Answer 1 by Historian:
“I try to achieve with my ‘armchair analysis’ […], that people take a CLOSER look at the involved parties in this Civil War. You know, @Gerry, Donbas is big – there are lots of people there, with VERY different opinions and political ideas – but only very few are in charge and power, like in Kiev.
Just read the last entry on this blog (the Ural-journalist’s eyewitness-account) – and you know, what I mean.”
To call it more explicitly by name for you: there is a RIGHT WING MILITANT PANSLAVISTIC SOLDATESKA in charge and power at Novorussia, right now, which is torturing ‘suspects’ and teenagers without trial or legitimacy to death.
Unless you find that quite normal and comprehensable (as you are digging your war zone/emergency service experience, @Gerry) or are declaring, that the journalist from Central Russia is an outright liar, I would just consider your brain as one, “which ignores real, everyday facts on the ground.”
Question 2 by Gerry:
“BTW are you accusing the Militia of using “human shields”?”
Answer 2 by Historian:
“Yep, @Gerry, human shield abuse – by definition.”
And no, @Gerry, I am no Nazi and no Zionist – quite the opposite of that.
Do you know what? There is another kind of ‘ideological trapping’, which I would call ‘naivity’ or ‘black-white-painting’ – as we call it in Germany, that means: being caught in sympathies and emotions without seeing the whole picture.
And if you feel better by ‘tagging’ me, ok, tag me. To imagine, how I imagine, how clever I am, is also up to you, @Gerry.
The strength of your arguments is weak, @Gerry.
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Posted by Historian | Sep 1, 2014, 17:32A reply to “Historian”:
Again, this is a perverse way of thinking. With your arguments the message you are conveying would read as follows: “To all the oppressed, destitute, persecuted peoples of the World, all victims of aggression: There is no point in resisting your masters’ superior will, kneel into submission, lay down your arms, surrender! As Gerryhiles in this section suggested, this is at the core of Netanyahu’s attitude towards the people of Gaza, and all Palestinians. You are to blame for the death and destruction falling upon you. How you dare to resist the will of the Chosen People, the superior civilizing drive of the State of Israel, there is no point in your irrational resistance to our will, we will completely destroy you! Incidentally, this wicked ideology is also at the core of Poroshenko’s so called “peace plan” for the Donbass: lay down your arms, surrender, and it will all be all right afterwards! Is this the kind of ideology you are espousing and trying to persuade us to accept, Historian?
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Posted by spartacus3011 | Sep 1, 2014, 12:18No, @Spartacus, it’s a realistic way of thinking – because not everybody wants to put up a fight and KILL somebody actually. Most people – the vast majority – are inherently and psychologically immune to any kind of brutality or violence against humans (if not forced or tricked). There is only a very small percentage of actual people willing to take a gun and shoot other humans, because they have learned and lived other values, mostly military or police professionals. Strelkov thought, he could ‘enflame the Slavic Heart’ en-masse to take up fire-arms. He has not done his historical homework, I guess, despite his Historical Reenactment Career.
There is another kind of very effective weapon at wartimes: passivity, desertion and inner emigration. Ukrainian conscripts are doing it, so that Kiev is wondering, if the Army has any fighting power at all – and Donbas people are doing it also, saying, that the Militia is an occupation force – like the Ukrainian Army.
Please, @Spartacus (and @Gerry), keep Gaza out off this discussion – that’s a different topic alltogether.
I am not espousing any ideology, I try to consider different aspects of a Civil War not very far away from my home, and I don’t try to persuade anybody of anything, I just asked critical questions, which were directed at this fact:
” … there is a RIGHT WING MILITANT PANSLAVISTIC SOLDATESKA in charge and power at Novorussia, right now, which is torturing ‘suspects’ and teenagers without trial or legitimacy to death.” [Historian]
If I shall fight against the Fascists of Kiev as a Liberal Leftist (as you and Gerry would prefer), shall I then take up arms and fight along the Fascists of Novorussia? Don’t you see any dilemma here? They would torture me to death at Donetsk, as I am no ‘Slav’ (what’s that, by the way!?), too critical, too peace-loving, too liberal and afterall quite anti-fascistic.
You have a real history-burdened and symbolizing nickname, @Spartacus, a focus of very much historical debate and interpretation throughout the times. For a Marxist point-of-view Spartacus symbolizes the early Rise of the Proletariate, the Leadership of an Ancient Proto-Revolution against Rome (the oppressive Empire), for a not-so-ideological historian it is the event of a slave revolt (there were several), which grew bigger by charismatic leadership and military success, but which succumbed by betrayal and attrition. It is quite a probable theory to state, that Spartacus wanted to erect his own KINGDOM somewhere – as this was a common type of rulership and state then, adequate to the proportions of the adventure.
I know, that the Militia of Novorussia is fighting the Fascists of Kiev. But that is not enough for me. I want to know, WHAT EXACTLY THEY WANT TO DO DURING AND AFTER WAR. I want to know their (secret) goals and agendas. For example: sending all ‘drug-addicts’ to laborcamps, perhaps? And not only socially outclassed, sick people, but others too? Disobeyers? Protesters?
In short: I just want to express my feelings, that I am quite DISAPPOINTED by my recent ‘discoveries’ regarding Novorussia.
I will not fight for a group of people, who are rassistic and torture – no, never.
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Posted by Historian | Sep 1, 2014, 19:05Great interview! I am rooting for Novorossiya and for you to fight the fascists.
Greetings from Germany
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Posted by Serg Derbst | Aug 30, 2014, 16:30Reblogged this on No War in Europe – Russia is NOT our Enemy! and commented:
Lots of insight and information in this interview with Alexej Mozgovoi, Self-Defence leader of the LPR. Recommended reading!
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Posted by nowarineurope | Aug 30, 2014, 19:03